River: They weren't cows inside. They were waiting to be, but they forgot. Now they see the sky and they remember what they are. Mal: Is it bad that what she said made perfect sense to me?

'Safe'


The Buffista Book Club: the Harry Potter iteration  

This thread is a focused discussion group. Please see the first post below for the current topic and upcoming book discussions. While natter will inevitably happen, we encourage you to treat this like a virtual book club and try to keep your posts in that spirit.

By consensus, this thread is reopened specifically to discuss Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. It will be closed again once that discussion has run its course.

***SPOILER ALERT***

  • **Spoilers for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows lie here. Read at your own risk***


Connie Neil - Sep 13, 2004 1:12:25 pm PDT #557 of 3301
brillig

I was pretty disgusted with our hero that he couldn't even warn his own parents of what they were about to face.

The impression that I got was that he didn't know *how* to tell them. He knew it was the last straw, and he just didn't have the maturity to go to them and say "I've done something that will offend and upset you, but I had no other way."


Wolfram - Sep 13, 2004 1:16:56 pm PDT #558 of 3301
Visilurking

The impression that I got was that he didn't know *how* to tell them. He knew it was the last straw, and he just didn't have the maturity to go to them and say "I've done something that will offend and upset you, but I had no other way."

That's the way Asher conveys it. But my impression was of a grown man (at that point) deciding to let the inevitable happen rather than be brave enough to step-up and say, "Mom, dad, there's something you need to know before you walk in those doors." I mean, they didn't surprise him there. They told him over and over - no nudes, we'll be there. They practically begged him to tell them of the existence of objectionable (to them) material, every time they asked "are you sure there are no nudes?" How much more of an opening does he need?


Daisy Jane - Sep 13, 2004 1:17:46 pm PDT #559 of 3301
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

Do you think on some level he wanted them to see it?


Wolfram - Sep 13, 2004 1:19:54 pm PDT #560 of 3301
Visilurking

Do you think on some level he wanted them to see it?

Abso-friggin-lutely. But I think he wanted it to relieve him of the burden of telling them himself what is going on in his head. I suppose he felt that as an artist, this is the way he communicates so it's fair for him to ambush them with the paintings rather than try and orally convey their contents.


Connie Neil - Sep 13, 2004 1:24:53 pm PDT #561 of 3301
brillig

a grown man

Really? I got the impression that he was in his late teens.


Daisy Jane - Sep 13, 2004 1:26:23 pm PDT #562 of 3301
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

I suppose he felt that as an artist, this is the way he communicates so it's fair for him to ambush them with the paintings rather than try and orally convey their contents.

If he could orally convey it, he wouldn't have the urgency to paint. (not an argument I was trying to bring you to, just working it out for myself). They were his two great works- I don't know how he could have communicated it. He could've said "Hey guys, there's a crucifixion." But that only tells them he's done something they don't approve of- from that description they can't even begin to think why.


Hil R. - Sep 13, 2004 1:29:01 pm PDT #563 of 3301
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Really? I got the impression that he was in his late teens.

By the end of the book, he was already past high school and had done at least some college, plus at least a year in Europe. I don't remember whether they were clear on whether he'd graduated college or not, but he's at least 22 or so by that point.


Connie Neil - Sep 13, 2004 1:36:16 pm PDT #564 of 3301
brillig

That old, huh. In any case, I don't think his inter-personal skills are very highly developed. I don't think he knows how to communicate in any way other than painting.

The Rabbi impressed me. I half-expected him to be rigidly orthodox (in the generic meaning of the word), but he made a real effort to accommodate Asher. Plus he keeps in contact with the secular world as evidence by Jacob. The Rabbi was truly upset at having to expel Asher, and not just because of the paintings but because I think he felt he had failed Asher.


sumi - Sep 13, 2004 1:37:38 pm PDT #565 of 3301
Art Crawl!!!

Really? I thought he was, like, 19.

And when would he have gained the maturity to talk about these things with his parents? They NEVER seemed to talk about anything the least bit tough. His behavior was all of a piece with his behavior during his entire life as written.


Wolfram - Sep 13, 2004 1:39:34 pm PDT #566 of 3301
Visilurking

Really? I got the impression that he was in his late teens.

Connie, he's at least 20 by then. He was born in 1943, and after a quick skim I think the Brooklyn Crucifixions were displayed about 3 to 4 years after Jacob Kahn finished campaigning for Kennedy.

If he could orally convey it, he wouldn't have the urgency to paint. (not an argument I was trying to bring you to, just working it out for myself). They were his two great works- I don't know how he could have communicated it. He could've said "Hey guys, there's a crucifixion." But that only tells them he's done something they don't approve of- from that description they can't even begin to think why.

It's funny but as I was explaining how he could have told them something I started to understand that he felt his only means of communication was through his art. And it's not like they wouldn't have seen his paintings on the covers of Time, Newsweek and the local papers. So the same end result would have occurred. But he could have tipped them off not to attend the show and been humiliated in front of all those people. That much would not have been hard to do.