So, anybody up for a discussion today?

Sure! What would you like to talk about?

We could try politics or religion. See how that works out.

Is it today we talk about Asher? I'm too lazy to check.

We could try politics or religion. See how that works out.

Or, we could combine them! How about this? "The Trinity is cool because you could use preferential voting to choose the most popular hypostase." Discuss.

Is it today we talk about Asher? I'm too lazy to check.

Yup. Somebody want to jump in first?

Yes! I made general notes. Yep, I love this book.

His community gives him every help they can. They would *prefer* him to follow his family's footsteps in the important work they are doing, but it's obvious that Asher is utterly unsuited to that life, that he is driven to art. He himself is driven to the point of sickness in his efforts to conform. His parents love him and don't want to cause him pain, but they are vowed to the defense and progress of their way of life. Art is a mystery to them, possibly sinful, but it is Asher's passion and they want to understand.

His art finally takes him, though, to a realm of truth that cannot be reconciled with the truth of the community. He raises questions and disturbances, and the community cannot survive with the constant roiling at its heart.

The antagonist is Tradition, tradition that expects people to subsume their own passions to its service. The Rabbi balances Asher's passion and the traditions as long as he can, but in the end Asher cannot serve two masters. He himself knows he's gone to far and wants to pull back, but his truth will not let him.

He was raised to integrity. He cannot back down from the truth.

But sometimes he and his father do seem to be antagonistic...they make some peace but...I wouldn't say his father isn't an antagonist.

I agree with erika -- I mean -- you could say that his father's believe in the tradition causes the antagonism but his father would not have supported him had the Rebbe (?) not done so.

Beyond just plot points- and I loved the story. I adored its structure- or to use an art word form. Repetition, almost a chant. The (paraphrasing) "I did not know, but I sensed it was the truth" gave me chills. I love that irrelevant things were left out. I love the dreams of his ancestors- like (hmm is coda the right word?) a coda.

It nearly read as a poem to me.

I loved the story too. I think the tradition/father/atonement caused the antagonism, but I think it's also what made him an artist. He could draw but "millions of people can draw." It was the need to make sense of the world, that it's an ugly place, that drawing in the sense of making pretty pictures isn't enough.

His community gives him every help they can. They would *prefer* him to follow his family's footsteps in the important work they are doing, but it's obvious that Asher is utterly unsuited to that life, that he is driven to art. He himself is driven to the point of sickness in his efforts to conform. His parents love him and don't want to cause him pain, but they are vowed to the defense and progress of their way of life. Art is a mystery to them, possibly sinful, but it is Asher's passion and they want to understand.

Asher's Ladover community's primary goal is to shelter its members from the damaging influence of the outside world, and encourage those members to engage, day and night, in the study of Torah. A secondary goal is to protect and nourish Ladover institutions all over the world. Often advancing the secondary goal requires allowing some members to involve themselves in the outside world a great deal.

I think when the Rebbe saw that Asher was incapable of being the type of Ladover Hasid who sits in a yeshiva (house of study) all day studying Torah and Talmud, he realized that Asher can best serve the community by nourishing his talent, and then, one day, contributing back to the community. I don't think it's said explicitly, but I got the impression that Jacob Kahn, and many other non-affiliated Jews, gave the Ladover Hassidim considerable financial support to continue their endeavors across the world. It was only after the Crucifixion paintings that the Rebbe understood. Art is not a discipline whose study and practice can be controlled or directed. And that's when the Rebbe sends him away.

After reading the story, I found that I was much more interested in the characters around our protaganist (the Rebbe, Jacob Kahn, his parents, Yudel Krimsky) than in Asher Lev himself.