Is it sexual violence? I'd have to say no.
It was both sexual and violent. The fact that it wasn't malicious doesn't make it excusable.
Mal: So we run. Nandi: I understand, Captain Reynolds. You have your people to think of, same as me. And this ain't your fight. Mal: Don't believe you do understand, Nandi. I said 'we run'. We.
'Heart Of Gold'
The Minearverse 3: The Network Is a Harsh Mistress
[NAFDA] "There will be an occasional happy, so that it might be crushed under the boot of the writer." From Zorro to Angel (including Wonderfalls and The Inside), this is where Buffistas come to anoint themselves in the bloodbath.
Jessica - Jun 17, 2005 8:08:21 am PDT #9501 of 10001
If I want to become a cloud of bats, does each bat need a separate vaccination?
Matt the Bruins fan - Jun 17, 2005 8:08:54 am PDT #9502 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
I thought that Strong kidnapped him after Rebecca left..
That was what I got out of it too. But Web and Rebecca and Paul had no inkling of that at the time of the reenactment.
Kevin - Jun 17, 2005 8:08:58 am PDT #9503 of 10001
Never fall in love with somebody you actually love.
I side with Kristen here. Brandt is, what I'd call, a wanker. Toss pot. Who happens to like BDSM. It's not the BDSM which is his problem, it's more the fact he's a toss pot.
I had to look up what TOGoM meant. I remember watching TOGoM a while ago, shooting script to hand, thinking "This should be great". And then I watched it. And kinda thought, if I see Tim, I'll not mention that one - it didn't quite work out how I'd pictured it.
Not that I'm saying I can do better mind, to clarify. Hell, I write in the perspective of a cat sometimes.
§ ita § - Jun 17, 2005 8:11:34 am PDT #9504 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
It's not the BDSM which is his problem
Who's saying it was, though? The text didn't seem to, and I'm not reading anyone here doing it either.
Steph L. - Jun 17, 2005 8:11:46 am PDT #9505 of 10001
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe
It was both sexual and violent. The fact that it was accidental doesn't make it excusable.
I'm not excusing it, but I don't think it's in the same category as sexual assault.
I can honestly say that I've been with guys who I had no intention of having sex with, but I was flirty and made out with them, etc., and then they went for the zipper of my pants. It was an unwanted sexual escalation, you betcha. Was it sexual assault? No. It was poor judgement based on what was going on at the time.
Other than the hardware involved, I don't see any difference between that and Rebecca/Brandt.
What nobody's said yet in this discussion (this specific one, from today; not just discussion of the episode) is that Rebecca was a dumbass, too. She put herself in a stupid situation.
Does THAT excuse how Brandt behaved? Of course not. It never does. It doesn't *excuse* it, but it contributed to a situation with fuzzy boundaries and really bad assumptions.
DavidS - Jun 17, 2005 8:14:32 am PDT #9506 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
An analogy to what I mean-- a guy reads a book about sculpture, buys a spot welder and welds together a bunch of scrap metal and calls it art. To him, it is art, he worked very hard at it, and it's legitimate. However, critics and dealers may call it junk.
And twenty years later it might be called art. Playing by the rules doesn't guarantee anything.
It can still be BDSM even if it's immoral or skirting the rules. Brandt got off on the power, the domination. Whether he was properly within the bounds of the culture or not, you can't say he wasn't into dominating. He was.
A better analogy is a pitcher who is throwing illegal spitballs. He's still pitching - he's just cheating. Brandt "cheated" - that doesn't mean he wasn't in the game.
Kevin - Jun 17, 2005 8:15:02 am PDT #9507 of 10001
Never fall in love with somebody you actually love.
ita, sorry, I wasn't infering anybody else was saying that. Which suggests I was actually thinking it in the back of my mind.
Shit, I'm Paul.
I best hide before Tim kills me off. In a Buffy cross over episode.
Emily - Jun 17, 2005 8:15:39 am PDT #9508 of 10001
"In the equation E = mc⬧, c⬧ is a pretty big honking number." - Scola
Unknown subject. Took me forever to get that one.
Thank you. I've been feeling dumb all week.
Jessica - Jun 17, 2005 8:23:21 am PDT #9509 of 10001
If I want to become a cloud of bats, does each bat need a separate vaccination?
It was poor judgement based on what was going on at the time.
I think I have to walk away from this.
§ ita § - Jun 17, 2005 8:27:16 am PDT #9510 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I think it gets messy because a) sex is involved and b) BDSM is involved.
Rape is supposed to be about power, not the sex. BDSM is intricately entwined with power, and is sexual. So is an assumption that BDSM is okay in a given instance a transgression on the rape-power axis, or on the sex-is-okay axis?
I lean with Steph, but it's murky murky water.