I agree. I also think the addition of Fred lacked something. Letting Lilah go and attempting to fill the spot with Eve was maddening to me, too. The flitting around, treating Angelus as an almost separate being from Angel cheapened Angel's struggle. Oh, and that Cordy thing, again.

BtVS deserved much better than it got in season 7. Overall, I think it was the superior show, but when Angel was *on* it was as good as BtVS at its best.

If BtVS S7 and AtS S3 had the worst season-off... hmmm. On the Buffy side, you have the endless speechifying, the annoying potentials, marginalization of the Scoobies and the pod-Giles. On the AtS side, you've got the destruction of everything I've ever loved about Cordelia, the irritating baby storyline and goofy!Angel (I mean, I loved angry-psychotic!adolescent Connor, but he annoyed the fuck out of me as the baby), and the limp Wes/Fred/Gunn triangle.

On the other hand, BtVS had Selfless, CWDP, and Chosen, while AtS had Billy, Loyalty and Sleep Tight. Hmmm.

I'm gonna have to go with Angel S3 (much as I love the Fall of Wesley arc), because while S7 BtVS episodes frequently bored me, there were no episodes on Buffy that I loathed as much as Dad and Provider. And the character assasination of Cordelia, to me, was a greater sin than pod!Giles, since it had longer-reaching implications.

The ruination of Cordelia was the worst crime either show ever committed, far surpassing Crack!Willow or the potentials.

I'd have to disagree. WTF?!Cordy was a sad, sad development, but the rest of the show didn't suffer nearly as much as BtVS did under Crack!Willow and the Potentials. (Oh yes, and Pod!Giles and Absent!Xander and Speech!Buffy. At least AtS only ruined one character.)

I guess I see the potentials as a bad idea, Crack!Willow as a brief wrong turn (since her flipping evil was fun), and Saint Cordy a betrayal.

::seeks distance::

::finds none::

Crack!Willow as a brief wrong turn

See, I didn't recognize Willow in S7 either. I loved her in Villains (enough to forget the crack metaphor almost entirely, if only for that 40 minutes), but after that she was never my Willow ever again.

The whining and pouting quotient of "Angel" was much lower than "Buffy". Angel wins for me.

I'd have to disagree. WTF?!Cordy was a sad, sad development, but the rest of the show didn't suffer nearly as much as BtVS did under Crack!Willow and the Potentials.

I'd say Crack!Willow was more an error in execution - getting too literal-minded with a metaphor when there were plenty of ways Willow could have gotten to Dark!Willow (who I enjoyed) without it (power corrupting being #1 on my list of should haves). There was NOTHING about St. Cordy that worked for me, conceptually or otherwise. Her going big bad worked OK for me, but it wasn't really Cordy, and until season 5 they never reclaimed her from the pit of suckitude in which they'd dropped real!Cordy. Whereas we got some Willow I liked after the crack scenario.

The potentials are a bit harder to forgive, but, again, I think it was mainly a by-product of the execution (marginalizing the Scoobies) rather then the concept per se. Also, we got enough Giles moments that I never felt he was a lost cause like I did with Cordelia, and I think he was the only one of the core who's character went off the rails (rather than just getting side-lined).

I guess I see the potentials as a bad idea, Crack!Willow as a brief wrong turn (since her flipping evil was fun), and Saint Cordy a betrayal.

I concur with ita. I think they turned the Willow storyline around pretty quickly, and I love the end rush of episodes in S6 because of it.

I never loved any character as much as I loved Wesley, so there's that. Easy the best character evolution we got to see in Jossverse, IMO.

And that's the reason I'll be buying multiple seasons of Angel on DVD. I still get a chill watching him square off with the wheatgrass hating bookie in "The Ring".

taps foot waiting for Ple to show up...