What I got from the episode was that it supressed Angel, and let Angelus through.
I may have to rewatch, because I'm clearly off my rocker in remembering this episode.
Dawn: I think a date should be in a real fancy restaurant, then champagne at a night club with a floor show, then ballroom dancing. Joyce: Unfortunately, we're not dating in a movie from the thirties.
'Get It Done'
Angel 5: Is That It? Am I Done?
[NAFDA] This is where we talk about the show! Anything that's aired in the US (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though -- if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.
DCJensen - Sep 26, 2004 4:43:32 pm PDT #2467 of 3531
All is well that ends in pizza.
Topic!Cindy - Sep 26, 2004 4:48:13 pm PDT #2468 of 3531
What is even happening?
Well, I don't know that there's a big difference, between letting Angelus through, and thinking he's Angelus.
As far as I can interpret canon, Angel and Angelus are one in the same. There is only Liam. Liam was vamped, which made him lose his soul. As a vampire, he went by the name Angelus. Then, the Gypsies restored Liam's soul to his undead body. He felt remorse. He started going by the name Angel. If undeal Liam with-a-soul is ever completely happy (stops feeling the weight of his guilt, even for a moment), undead Liam will lose his soul. It happened once, and Willow, once again, restored his soul.
Undead Liam with-a-soul was drugged with an agent that makes him feel bliss. He didn't lose his soul, but he felt pretty much the same as when he is without a soul. The soul is that which allows him to feel remorse, and interestingly, if he stops feeling the remorse, he forfeits the soul, immediately.
Or something.
victor infante - Sep 26, 2004 4:53:39 pm PDT #2469 of 3531
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.
DruggedAngel believed he was Angelus, was looking to do some damage, and had the tools needed to do that damage.
I can believe this. Certain intoxicants have made me think I was a fighter pilot, looking to do much the same. Then I was sat down to watch Mary Poppins until I sobered up. Maybe they should have tried that with Angelus.
"I WILL KILL YOU AL....oooh. Umbrellas!"
Drawde - Sep 26, 2004 6:10:29 pm PDT #2470 of 3531
Wait! These aren't MY pants!
It always seemed to me that there was more to the angel/Angelus thing than just a name change and a lot of remorse. As I see it here is a clear demarcation between the two, almost to the point of being completely seperate personalities. Ok, Liam gets vamped and becomes Angelus, years pass and he gets cursed by the gypsies. Wham, resouled and remorseful his mind cracks from the guilt over all the terrible things "he" has done. In order to give himself (some) distance from this his mind creates itself a new personality... Angel. He still has all of the guilt ( which keeps the the Angelus personality pushed down) but he gains the ability to tell himself that that was Angelus doing those things not him. The mind protecting itself from the trauma of the sudden guilt and remorse. When Angel was drugged/desouled the lack of remorse allowed Angelus to rise back to the surface.
As a sidenote Spike seems to have avoided this split in personality. Pre-resouling Spike is very similar to resouled (post-crazy) Spike.
Note: Take all of this with a large grain of salt. I'm tired and medicated. Apparently non-drowsey doesn't mean what I thouught it did.
ted r - Sep 26, 2004 8:24:10 pm PDT #2471 of 3531
"You got twelve, and they got twelve. The old ladies are just as good as you are." -Dr. Einstein
Almost through season 4 on DVD and liking it much more the second time through. And I'm not sure why that is really.
Of course what I really want is Angel season 6.
(Picture Jon Stewart doing Shatner: Damn you WB!)
Matt the Bruins fan - Sep 27, 2004 4:34:27 am PDT #2472 of 3531
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
They took great care in Seasons 1, 2 and 4 to underscore that Angel and his alter ego aren't really two entirely different identities. They were portrayed as such in "Orpheus" when it was the demon versus the soul on a metaphysical level, but in practice Angel remembers the things he did while evil as things he did, and uses "I" in reference to the period. We've seen that he still possesses the same kinks and darker urges when his soul is in command, he just represses them. I think all that the bliss did was remove his inhibitions and show that he's a REALLY mean drunk.
Lyra Jane - Sep 27, 2004 5:19:27 am PDT #2473 of 3531
Up with the sun
Did anyone else see CC on Charmed?
She looks utterly fantastic, but it really showed how much the ME writing and directing made the most of her acting skills.
Lyra Jane - Sep 27, 2004 5:19:32 am PDT #2474 of 3531
Up with the sun
Huh. Hiccup.
Stephanie - Sep 27, 2004 5:21:43 am PDT #2475 of 3531
Trust my rage
I saw her, but I actually turned off the TV before the end. The sisters' whining was just too much. I agree with LJ about ME making the most of her. It was weird because I just finished watching AtS S4 and I just loathed her through the entire last half of the seasons.
§ ita § - Sep 27, 2004 5:23:40 am PDT #2476 of 3531
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
The sisters' whining was just too much.
I made hearty use of the FF button. Damn, that was annoying beyond the bounds of the device. I get that the usual plot is to have something go awry that makes them act funny/have to hide things, but this was a bit much.