As I compare the Buffy finale to the Angel finale, I see one overriding thing common, and it's like i can see plot bunny ears scattering about. I remember seeing an article on the Internet or some other venue where Whedon said he would craft season finales as if they were series finales (just in case the ratings doomed them to cancellation). The Angel finale wasn't about closure as much as it was a rain check, in my opinion. This show is dead, but the idea of it is still alive -- and our parting gift was that the primary -- Angel -- had committed to fight. The Buffy finale was left with a sense of openness--life beyond the arc of Sunnydale. Someone could pick those ideas up and make them work again. From one end, a beginning, so on and so forth.

I agree with many here that substantively the greatest loss in terms of a character was Wesley's. He had one of the best combinations of intellectual agility and physical strength in the entire Buffy-Angel mythos. And we got to see him change from his arrival in Buffy S3. His was one of the great character evolutions of both series.

I know the Leonard Version (or, the ONLY SONG ALLOWED TO BE CALLED BY THAT NAME WHEN I RULE THE UNIVERSE)

Ahem, I'm afraid you'll have to pry Tom Waits first album (album title: Closing Time, and it's the last song on the record) from my dead cold fingers before you're allowed to bogart that title.

I'm with Plei on the Leonard Cohen love, and offer my assistance to her Universe-Ruling efforts!

After reading the recent posts I have an image in my mind of Batman dripping wet in a rainy alleyway trading punches with Joker to the sound of "Take This Waltz". Bizarre.

Ahem, I'm afraid you'll have to pry Tom Waits first album (album title: Closing Time, and it's the last song on the record) from my dead cold fingers before you're allowed to bogart that title.

There are Tom Waits exceptions to all rules, because hey, Tom Waits. He's got, like, diplomatic immunity in the Pleiverse.

(He was also once the justification for a 6am beer and smokes run when I was at TESC.)

After reading the recent posts I have an image in my mind of Batman dripping wet in a rainy alleyway trading punches with Joker to the sound of "Take This Waltz". Bizarre.

t can't-breathe-laughing-too-hard-picturing-this

He was also once the justification for a 6am beer and smokes run when I was at TESC

Him or the Blues Brothers (movie only) is all the justificatin you'd ever need for that.

Him or the Blues Brothers (movie only) is all the justificatin you'd ever need for that.

My buddy and I, both on contract instead of having regular classes, and in the midst of serious research blockage, asked ourselves "what would Tom Waits do?"

That may have been the night that we discoved that Con Queso goes well with Chips Ahoy.

That may have been the night that we discoved that Con Queso goes well with Chips Ahoy.

I can almost extrapolate the flavors of mole' sauce on cheese enchiladas from the combo, but the sugary part is still making me gag.

I can almost extrapolate the flavors of mole' sauce on cheese enchiladas from the combo, but the sugary part is still making me gag.

Dude, have you really *tasted* the con-queso-in-jar? That stuff is actually sweeter than the cookies.

Our logic was, okay, our logic was, it was three in the morning, and we'd been drinking Fosters all night when the munchies hit and that was all I had in the house that didn't need cooking, but our rationalization was that as one tasted nothing like cheese, and one tasted nothing like cookies, it would be safe to try 'em together. No one was more shocked than us when it tasted really good.

Sometimes, I miss college. My brain cells and liver? Not so much. They're pretty freaking glad I'm out of there.

Sorry to go back to rehashing Not Fade Away now that everyone seems to have moved on to brighter and better (?) things, but the oddest things seem to set me off. Here goes:

our rationalization was that as one tasted nothing like cheese, and one tasted nothing like cookies, it would be safe to try 'em together.

Sounds like a good theme for a Spike poem.

Seriously, though, I think Spike's poetry reading, especially coming after major drinking as it did, was the best part of the finale. It was such a fulfillment of his human dream, especially since it was well received.

Wes was sad, although Illyria's/Fred's reaction was even more so. Gunn was satisfying (getting back to his roots in a positive way with Anne). Lorne was bitter and broken, as he lost his anchor, and in a sense his soul, in doing what needed to be done. Harmony was Harmony. And Angel continued to focus on doing what needed to be done, without regard to himself, in actions that were part atonement and part the thrill of the kill. But Spike, Spike was sublime. Before the finale, I hadn't been a fan of Spike on AtS, but this made it all worthwhile.

Whether or not you liked the finale, and I am ambivalent about much of it at this point, it certainly did not fade away. I can't wait for the first movie.

I usually do a fair job of catching some of the more subtleties in the jossverse, but I come here to read the interesting analyses of said subtleties. Plus, I was really confused about the Lorne/Lindsey interaction and I like the idea that Lorne has known for a while how it would all go down and that's why he's been SO depressed and disillusioned. I still feel the whole Lindsey offing is weird, though. I know he kept stabbing Angel in the back, but it just felt wrong, somehow.

Thanks to the Mutant Enemy folks for making me actually care about tv, and allowing me to get drawn in to the meatier aspects instead of just enjoying it on a surface level. Thanks for making me care, sometimes a little too much. Thanks for providing other fans with such a need to discuss that I got to lurk at b.org for many a year. Much well-wishing to all your future projects (and please hurry up with creating new tv shows!).

d.