'Cause Wes was always so rational about Fred...

Wes hasn't been rational over anything for quite a while. I mean, by those lights, Connor should have boffed him, not Cordy.

Why do you think Illyria loved Wes more than Fred did? I think she made an attachment, but I wouldn't put a capital L on it.

This is going to sound really weird, but I think Illyria loved Wesley with a selfless love. She didn't care if he wanted her to be herself or Fred or whomever. She just liked being around him and she wanted to see him at peace. She followed him around all the time. In Origin she got ticked off pretty quickly at Angel when she suspected him of fucking with Wesley's world. Her speech in TGiQ about how she couldn't stand to see anymore grief from anyone, said to me that she couldn't deal with his grief anymore. She was very hurt when he didn't want to be near her and she stopped imitating Fred when he asked her to.

I just think that for Fred, Wesley was a nice guy whom she started viewing romantically years after she met him. I don't think it was ever a deep thing with her. Illyria seemed to need him.

I don't know if agape means anything to an ex-god, but I kinda see I/W and F/W as apples and oranges.

I think that the Illyria love is like the imprinting of a baby chick (like someone said earlier) She didn't know what else to do, so she tried to make her guide happy (like when she went with Wes to the sorcerer's house)

I think Illyria loved Wesley with a selfless love.

I think Illyria loved Wesley with a baby duckling love.

No, seriously. He was her guide. He made the world make sense to her. She imprinted on him, she loved him, she followed him -- in an infantile way. I don't mean this as an insult. I mean, literally, that she depended on him as much as an infant depends on its mother, although her needs were emotional, psychological, and philosophical, rather than emotional and physical.

Ha, X-post.

I mean, by those lights, Connor should have boffed him, not Cordy.

Now I'm just trying to figure out why, of all pairings, Connor/Wes is setting off my squickometer.

[eta: And word to the baby duck comparison. Illyria needed Wes, but I don't know if she was emotionally mature enough to feel what I'd call love.]

Now I'm just trying to figure out why, of all pairings, Connor/Wes is setting off my squickometer.

Heh.

I tried to write it, and it made mine go pingpingping.

And everyone KNOWS mine's broken.

You people are sick. It makes perfect sense.

I think that the point of making Angel sign the agreement is his willingness to do so -- I don't know that he has any actual power to refuse a shanshu if it's not actually being offered to him at the time.